Curse

Yawgmoth · Oct 22, 2010, 01:15 AM // 01:15

CB Sucks this year soooo much

Even without syncing but just normally playing in the last year the best part of CB was getting a solid team with like 2 other people that had brains and were able to communicate and get a basic strategy working and getting the consec wins with them. I had streaks of 40+ wins WITHOUT syncing and it was a great fun AND very rewarding.

This year it's pathetic, miserable, just bad. Not only the players are almost all completelly horrible (as every year in the first days of CB) but victories aren't really rewarding - when you get a new team of clueless noobs at next match wins feel like loses. Big disappointment.

Oh and as for GvG added rewards, if the real thing that will be added later instead of the ToT bags will be worthwhile, I can imagine GvG turning into insane /resign abuse among PvE guilds.

Thevil King · Oct 22, 2010, 01:17 AM // 01:17

tbh the bars are not the essential problem here, its the new system for dealing with syncing

and while you are right in saying that it is not a good change, your argument about why it is so is not a very good one. it is not so much with the win streaks that matters, but rather the fact that good players are being forced to carry the team every single game. this is frustrating to these skilled players, and will drive them away.

having a long win streak is alright, but what is more important is playing a truly fun, engaging match that rewards skill and high lvl game play. does the new system do that? no, because those ppl who knows how to play are carrying game after game, and helplessly brought down by incompetent teammates. if the average player skill is in fact high, and most ppl are capable of making sound decisions that contribute to the team, then this system is not that bad. however, this is not the case because the avg skill lvl is just that bad. maybe it has to do with anet neglecting pvp, idk.

also, the new cb map is a joke, and demonstrates, once again, how inept the devs are. basically, the whole thing just rewards whoever has the most dmg. it completely undermines any strategic play as most of the games on that map just turns into a big brawl. i would go further into details, but then again, its pretty pointless to expect any thing good in gw at this point.

Mr. Undisclosed · Oct 22, 2010, 01:23 AM // 01:23

I think your whole problem stems from treating CB as serious PvP.

Thevil King · Oct 22, 2010, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Undisclosed

I think your whole problem stems from treating CB as serious PvP.

for some players, it is. for example, ex hbers, because its resemblence to the deleted hb, or event players, who just likes to play festival games. but wait, even if ppl do treat it srsly, whats wrong with that?

Killed u man · Oct 22, 2010, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Yeah, I've thought about the rewards not being on scale with the effort of carrying your team each time, but I decided to put it out for the obvious reason that as a good player, you will indeed get more ToT bags than as a bad player. (Because you'll have more wins)

However, the quantity is not as much as it should be. The way the system works now is it promotes "leeching". The best players would have to give in rewards because they'll loose more games because of bad players. The worst players would gain more rewards than they would've in the old system, but they'll get teamed up alot more with the better players who would've been in on 20+ consecutive runs.

All in all, it made the format more random, and less skill-rewarding, but this all in the eye of the beholder to judge. From a PvE perspective, this would be concidered positive, because the average PvE will, in fact, get more wins under this new system. (Albeit a redicilously low percentage)

So to avoid further confusion or discussion, I decided to let it out alltogether...

@ Mr:

By posting on these forums, you seem to be taking GW serious. (As do I) I can make a million jokes and claims about this fact, and all of them would be pointless and true, but it wouldn't serve to anything.

I think Costume Brawl is how Codex Arena shoudl've been implemented, and after 5 years, I still have a sparkle of belief that Anet can be convinced to implement costume brawl (albeit in it's old format) as a full time PvP-format with a ladder and such, because it is alot more enjoyable, and fresh, than just about every other PvP-format.

Just Sai · Oct 22, 2010, 01:28 AM // 01:28

seems to me some people here think they are too cool for school.
blaming an event for being unable to handle your rage at being unable to fully control the field is sad.
get over it, its supposed to be fun, a game remember.
i dont care what anyone thinks while im having fun, do you?

Konig Des Todes · Oct 22, 2010, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

the fact that I'm limited to 15 points per win is f-ing stupid.

Would you prefer 10? Or what about the 5 from DA?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Skillbars- sin bar now is laughable, so is ranger bar. They definitely should work on other classes' skillbars instead of dumbing down the most powerful.

I find rangers annoying to kill and assassins is fun to play as - even with the lack of defense. As I said in my previous post, each professions' bar has its pros and cons. As they are meant to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

@ Konig: Yeah, maybe you could PM me the reason or something? But untill we (the community) get an explanation, you can't really blame us for asking or complaining. The solution is so obvious, yet these redicilous measures get taken which more often than not ruin the fun. (And in this case they do)
If there is a solid reason to do things this way, I'dd love to hear it. But common sense is telling me it's either one of 2 things:
- To stop people from going in during dead hours, and then play hours straight (cuz even if they manage to form a synced team, they'll be broken up the second more people start to play)

I cannot say the reason - in any form - as it would breach the NDA. You'll have to wait. And I am not blaming you for complaining, I'm merely saying there was a reason why it was done to CB.

"The solution is so obvious" - yet you never say it. Or do you mean the shuffling? Unfortunately, due to the districts, that cannot be done and the district aspect of outposts is too tied into the game to remove - as far as I'm aware, at least.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Certain hacks which allow hackers to team up with whomever they want. (I've heard from reliable source this has been a possibility for a long time)

I've never heard of this and you saying you had a reliable source without saying who that reliable source is far less than reliable. The only hacks I know which you're talking about is syncing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

It's just not fun playing as any of the professions, because it's nothing more than: Run in, see if your profession beats his profession. If it does: engage, if it doesn't, run...

Which requires you to think and also focus on capping rather than just having one big arse brawl in a ball while 1 person from 1 team realizes "hey, everyone's here, I'll go solo cap and not have any issues!" like the past few years.

Where's the issue in that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thevil King

for some players, it is. for example, ex hbers, because its resemblence to the deleted hb, or event players, who just likes to play festival games. but wait, even if ppl do treat it srsly, whats wrong with that?

But it still isn't a series PvP. It's nothing like HB.

Thevil King · Oct 22, 2010, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

Which requires you to think and also focus on capping rather than just having one big arse brawl in a ball while 1 person from 1 team realizes "hey, everyone's here, I'll go solo cap and not have any issues!" like the past few years.

in this case, then tell me why this new map is so bad at encouraging ppl to "think and focus on capping". afaik, almost every game on that map turns into a "big arse brawl in a ball", apparantly the person who goes solo capping is useless because no matter how hard you cap on this map, or the other norn map, the team who spams out the most dmg in a brawl will win. these maps are so small that it is extremely difficult to avoid either a huge brawl or getting rolled.

Quote:

But it still isn't a series PvP. It's nothing like HB.

wait, are you stating this as an objective fact? that anet wrote in cold hard stone saying that "cb is not a serious pvp and nobody should take it seriously or care about it"? if yes then i would like to see that

Shayne Hawke · Oct 22, 2010, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thevil King

wait, are you stating this as an objective fact? that anet wrote in cold hard stone saying that "cb is not a serious pvp and nobody should take it seriously or care about it"? if yes then i would like to see that

Gamer doesn't count as a PvP accomplishment in the HoM. Gamer doesn't help your Balth faction. Costume Brawl is not PvP according to ANet.

Thevil King · Oct 22, 2010, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

Gamer doesn't count as a PvP accomplishment in the HoM. Gamer doesn't help your Balth faction. Costume Brawl is not PvP according to ANet.

and so people should allow the inept devs to force everything down their throat? even if its a bad update? now i know how gw went down the drain

Konig Des Todes · Oct 22, 2010, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thevil King

and so people should allow the inept devs to force everything down their throat? even if its a bad update? now i know how gw went down the drain

GW has yet to go down the drain. It's still active, CB is active, obviously you're not in the majority here. GW is old, that's all. You should seriously stop complaining about something that isn't bad.

I wouldn't doubt that you hate CB just because you used to sync. Same with the others who're complaining.

I've played a good number of CB matches and in fact won every match. Never had the same team - a few times I fought the people who were on my previous team. I was playing the so called "sucky" assassin. Yet... I did so well? Wait, what? That is the complete opposite of the arguments of your and the OP!

Thevil King · Oct 22, 2010, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

GW has yet to go down the drain. It's still active, CB is active, obviously you're not in the majority here. GW is old, that's all. You should seriously stop complaining about something that isn't bad.

see, again you continue to make objective claims that are either irrelevant or unfounded.

yes, gw is old, but the state of pvp that it is in is a direct result of the devs actions. some players don't like that, and that includes me, my old ta and hb friends, and now my gamer friends who looked forward to playing cb this whole yr.

cb may be active, but i doubt it will be for much longer. idk maybe im wrong, but only time will tell.

now about the complaining part, if you can prove that my, or the ops, reasons for thinking this update is bad, then you can accuse me of that. but so far i am only raising a different point of view, that you do not like, in this discussion.

Quote:

I wouldn't doubt that you hate CB just because you used to sync. Same with the others who're complaining.

wrong, i dont like the old system either, but that does nothing to discredit valid arguments against the new one.

Quote:

I've played a good number of CB matches and in fact won every match. Never had the same team - a few times I fought the people who were on my previous team. I was playing the so called "sucky" assassin. Yet... I did so well? Wait, what? That is the complete opposite of the arguments of your and the OP!

yea, ever heard of something called fallacy of hasty generalization? yea, thats what you are doing. even if you win every single match it has nothing to do with the argument that it is unfair for the good players to carry every single game. its just irrelevant.

ps: i played sin too, for about 40-50 games now, and i won a lot of these games. but it has nothing to do with me thinking that this update is sht.

Still Number One · Oct 22, 2010, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Idk I rolled a ranger and thought it was pretty fun. I always seemed to get a minimum streak of 5 and never really lost when the game was 5v5. The builds are bad sure, but the warrior and ranger bars (only two I've played so far) kept me entertained because I wasn't gimped compared to everyone else.

There is an awful lot of shit talk going on though for something that seems so...casual. Not to mention I always seem to get someone on my team who takes it upon himself to order everyone around and they usually give terrible orders. I end up overcalling them and my team usually follows my lead cause I guess they get annoyed by those players too, lol.

Overall its still fun because its not something you can always do. It isn't fun enough for me to want to play it for hours on end every day like GvG is/was, but still fun...

Silverblad3 · Oct 22, 2010, 03:03 AM // 03:03

CB is one of the best PvP formats, it is player Vs player. You can tell the PvPers who play in CB compared to the less serious and PvEers as they wander aimlessly, run into 4 players thinking they can take on the world, cant work the maths that 3v5 is not good odds when you dont have shrine advantage so maybe go cap some?

Anyway, seems some TK folk cant really decide what PvP constitutes. Is CB serious, me and many other people I play with have been looking forward to this. Darn pleased about the syncing being knocked on the head but at the cost of possibly playing with good players, finding synergy with players that can actually play the game? Hmmm......

Some bars are certainly not as much fun, like really Echo on the mesmer? What? Seriously?

No hex removal on the monk?

Wait, you (TK and anet) actively decided to play CB as rocks, paper and scissors? Have some professions that can beat others etc? You decided to inform people in your opinion what beats what? Like really? This is a format to showcase incredible bars and what classes can do, and you failed hard at it.

No need for the TK to defend the tripe for this years CB here, please. It is clear that the TK and anet really dont understand the fantastic thing CB was, and could be.

Surprised? Yes. Disappointed? Yes.

Silver

Corpus Vitalis · Oct 22, 2010, 03:40 AM // 03:40

My 2 cents on this horrible Necro bar

From a quick glance and little studying of it, half the skills require a health sacrifice(and almost no way to make up for it because Blood Renewal has 15% health sacrifice and must be cast every 7 seconds) and Ravenous Gaze is a joke. To break even on the health loss you have to hope that you can hit AT LEAST 3 of their team members (at 500 health, and many have more than that) to benefit from the skill(and from a few matches today, it seemed like people didn't want to group too much). Sure it has some so-so degen if you catch them all(more grouping issues) with Ulcerous lungs, then hit them all with various skills under the effects of barbed signet. So it does have some so-so synergy between plague sending and foul feast or between the skills mentioned above, but overall, that build seems no where near alright

Killed u man · Oct 22, 2010, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Quote:

I find rangers annoying to kill and assassins is fun to play as - even with the lack of defense. As I said in my previous post, each professions' bar has its pros and cons. As they are meant to.

True, and that's a good thing, but the problem is that the pros and cons are so straightforward, individual play hardly matters anymore. Simply put again: You've taken a format, and succesfully made it a 10-way Rock-Paper-Scissorts. And this might work for the average PvE'er (once again no offence intended), but for the average PvP'er (Hence thread title) this is unacceptable.

Quote:

"The solution is so obvious" - yet you never say it. Or do you mean the shuffling? Unfortunately, due to the districts, that cannot be done and the district aspect of outposts is too tied into the game to remove - as far as I'm aware, at least.

Ok, could be true. What about shuffling the teams when they are formed. Obviously teams from different districts can oppose eachother (If 4 people enter from Polish, and 4 from Russian, they will both be assigned in their respective teams with members from their district), this means there is a pool of 8 names created somewhere. Right now, syncing abuses the fact that the game puts all 4 players from the same district (or region) in the same team.
Why not make it so the game randomly puts the 8 member in either team.

So even when syncers succesfully sync all 4/5 members into the same battle, the chance of them being on the same side will be 12.5% (If I'm not mistaken)/6.75%. (Percentages calculated from the top of my head assuming the first guy can be on any team, the second has 50% to be in the first, so do the next players, resulting in a chance drop by 50% each time a new member needs to be in their team)

That's 12.5% (4 players)/6.75% (5 players) chance opposed to the 100% chance which still exists today in RA; People from the same region still get teamed up together. That, in my eyes, would seem a pretty decent fix to the syncing problem.

Quote:

Which requires you to think and also focus on capping rather than just having one big arse brawl in a ball while 1 person from 1 team realizes "hey, everyone's here, I'll go solo cap and not have any issues!" like the past few years.

You can argue all you want about this, but you can't argue the fact that a monkey could do this. Guild Wars gets reduced to nothing more than Rock-Paper-Scissors where you always win as long as you know who wins against who.

The fact that it's either this or that is the intire point I'm complaining about. The fact that the bars are so straightforward and one dimensional, no form of input is needed whatsoever. The game plays itself for you.

Whereas ideally, every profession would be able to beat every profession in certain conditions, and a good player would beat a bad player. Giving every bar versatility and utility (which is what I'm preaching for) does just that.

Quote:

I wouldn't doubt that you hate CB just because you used to sync. Same with the others who're complaining.

No reason to be throwing insults and namecalling around. Yes, I used to sync, but not because I wanted to win but because I wanted to play together with my friends. I've played more matches (way more) non-synced than I did synced. Also, one of the first statements in my OP is that I think it's a good thing syncing got fixed.

However, something leads me to believe the Teste Krewe had alot to do with the sync fix, aswell as (obviously) the skill bars. To me, you're just trying to defend poorly made descissions by a majority of PvE'ers to a PvP format. Yeah yeah, we can bitch all day about wether or not CB is PvP or not. There's no NPC's, you're facing other players, there's no PvE skills and you enter from GToB. In my eyes, and by the general definition, it's concidered PvP.

Quote:

I've played a good number of CB matches and in fact won every match. Never had the same team - a few times I fought the people who were on my previous team. I was playing the so called "sucky" assassin. Yet... I did so well? Wait, what? That is the complete opposite of the arguments of your and the OP!

I never said you couldn't get consecutives or win matches. Or atleast not in a non-dramatising way. If the gods of fortune are smiling upon you, you can obviously get 10 consecutives. You can also win the lottery if you're lucky, that doesn't mean someone should try to get his income from winning the lottery.

The system is flawed from the ground up for reasons mentioned before. When you finally, legitimately, get a decent team you almost feel bad for wining because you know you'll loose them the next round.

The better players carry the worse players, every match. There's no point educating, calling team chat tactics or in general communicating with your team because:

A) Consecutives don't matter, so it doesn't matter if you win every match or not.
B) It takes too long and gets too tiring to re-explain tactics every match.

All this update has done is turn CB more into a buttonbashformat. This might amuse people like you yourself, and many others, but anyone with the least sense of competivity and game balance will feel something is off, and it simply doesn't work.

Anet has once again done what they do best, and that's dumbing the game down so the masses can farm them. Instead they should be focusing educating the masses so they finally learn how become efficient in GW and find synergies and ultimately truly learn how to play GW.

"Why?" you ask? I don't know, because I like to believe a game can be more than rolling your head over the keyboard. I like to believe there is such a thing as intelligent gaming where skill and brainpower matters. Let PvE'ers have their PvE (I concider myself 50% PvE'er too), but please give us PvP'ers the PvP we deserve aswell.

Markus Clouser · Oct 22, 2010, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Tooooo much QQ.

On another note,
this year I think we have the best CB so far. Why? Random teams. I've said it briefly in another post, but random teams = every team is the same, same level of noobness or leetness (more or less). I easily had 6 consecutive wins earlier today, some lost matches, but at least I wasn't as annoyed as last year. Yes, last year I managed 20-27 consecutives but I also had my ass handed by good teams over and over and over again to the point where it became insanely annoying. That's probably the reason for which I stopped doing CB when I got 1000 or so gamer points.

Shriketalon · Oct 22, 2010, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Note I say PvP'ers because a large part of the PvE community venturing in PvP don't care about fun, they mostly care about rewards. On top of that, due to their lack of PvP experience, most of them wouldn't even understand what is fun and whatnot.

This statement is utterly inane.

Fun is fun. Enjoyment is enjoyment. Mirth is mirth, etc. If everyone is enjoying themselves when they are playing, they are doing it right, because games exist for the purpose of enjoying ourselves. Saying "Stop having fun! You don't understand proper recreation" is just about the most foolish thing one can say about a game.

If you aren't enjoying yourself in a particular activity.....don't do it. If you don't like playing one format, stop playing that and do something you enjoy. The fact that you don't like Costume Brawl isn't a legitimate logical flaw in its design. It just means the format doesn't cater directly to you. It's a casual format, meant to be a minor diversion open to anyone (I'm amused by the fact that you declare that the previous CB, which you admit to syncing, was "fun for both the Die-Hards and the casual gamers", without perhaps pondering if your syncing made it not-so-fun for a certain category) with the purpose of creating general PvP play. It is not hardcore. It is not serious. It is not meant to be anything more than a fun time, hence the Gamer title.

If you are not having fun with it, describe why. But don't tell people who are having a good time that they aren't enjoying themselves properly, because that is just not classy.

Mr. Undisclosed · Oct 22, 2010, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

This statement is utterly inane.

Fun is fun. Enjoyment is enjoyment. Mirth is mirth, etc. If everyone is enjoying themselves when they are playing, they are doing it right, because games exist for the purpose of enjoying ourselves. Saying "Stop having fun! You don't understand proper recreation" is just about the most foolish thing one can say about a game.

If you aren't enjoying yourself in a particular activity.....don't do it. If you don't like playing one format, stop playing that and do something you enjoy. The fact that you don't like Costume Brawl isn't a legitimate logical flaw in its design. It just means the format doesn't cater directly to you. It's a casual format, meant to be a minor diversion open to anyone (I'm amused by the fact that you declare that the previous CB, which you admit to syncing, was "fun for both the Die-Hards and the casual gamers", without perhaps pondering if your syncing made it not-so-fun for a certain category) with the purpose of creating general PvP play. It is not hardcore. It is not serious. It is not meant to be anything more than a fun time, hence the Gamer title.

If you are not having fun with it, describe why. But don't tell people who are having a good time that they aren't enjoying themselves properly, because that is just not classy.

I spend too much time on facebook because I just spent a solid minute trying to find out how to like this post.

Showtime · Oct 22, 2010, 06:50 AM // 06:50

i read... my assassin no longer has an advantage over other classes and that makes me not want to play.

it's fake gvg. enjoy it for what it is. you know where to go for better competition.

maybe i'll try it out with my ranger now or my war or nec or whatver.